If anyone knows about critical acclaim, and just how much it means, it's Stephen Cummings, the lead singer of the Sports and solo artist for past decade.

Cummings' inventive and often groundbreaking work has led many a critic to gush to the point of embarrassment, but when it comes to album sales, the figures do not match the so-called experts enthusiasm.

Paradoxically, his status among the critics, and their perception that he was the prince of cool, basically forced him to a most 'unhip' thing: a voice over on the Medibank Private advertisement which he admits he had to do to pay the bills.

That's the failure of significant success.

Stephen Cummings' new album, Falling Swinger, marks the first time he has made an album with a producer, The Church's Steve Kilbey, himself no stranger to being lauded by the media.

On Falling Swinger, Cummings, 40-years-old, has again changed musical position and reverted to a more subdued and plaintive style, using acoustic guitar as an overriding influence and not a keyboard as has been the case with releases such as Senso.

According to Cummings, the album "covers the blurred incidents; the fuzzy, grimly ironic character of everyday life".

It's quite evident on Falling Swinger that Steve Kilbey's influence was felt. But I believe prior to you recording the album, you'd never met?

That's right, I don't really know him at all. We met because a friend of mine, a sound engineer called Simon Polinski, had worked with Steve on a couple of projects, one that Steve's coming out called Fake and another Jack Frost album. Anyway, he was telling me that I would get on really well with Steve Kilbey and suggested I should get together to make this album. I heard all about his great studio.

So I simply rang him up and he said he was pretty keen to do it, I sent him up some songs that I had written which he said he really liked and just went from there.

Well, I think because I've worked with the same little group of people for so long I just felt I had exhausted what I kind of do; I wanted to modify what I do and send it off in another way. That was another reason I thought it would be good to work with Steve; you know, just to change it around.

I think one reason might be that this album is more 'me'. I've had less input from other people, that might be another reason.

See, if you work with the same people all the time, it's just like being in a band: You still have to fit in with everybody's likes and dislikes. In the past, I haven't been able to do some of the things that I wanted to do because there were other influences to consider, even though they were solo records. Getting a producer, as well, allowed me to be more forceful about what I wanted.

Well, I think it still sounds like me, I think it really is a progression. It wasn't an overnight decision or anything.

Steve and I were on a similar wavelength in the sense that he's a real music fan and we had similar reference points.

Yeah, I think Steve had taken me out for tea at one of his favourite Krishna restaurants.

I was a bit taken aback that it was his favourite, or one of his favourites, and it made me go back and listen to it: and it really is a great record, apart from the jam, which is shocking (laughs). In fact, I went and bought it on CD just yesterday.

George was the most important element of The Beatles that made it all work, I reckon. He was the most musical member; you can tell that easily.

Yeah, we did. Funnily enough we've got the same birthday, September the 13th.

Yeah, I'm a couple of years earlier.

(his voice drops to a whisper) The big 40!

Well, I kind of am a Melbourne person, but less so now...perhaps it was just that I was brought up and I couldn't be bothered moving.

Well, yeah, but now I like getting out of it and being a bit transient. I'm basically game for anything...at this stage in my life. (he pauses) I was just thinking of something. There was this personality in Melbourne and his wife had just died, and when asked if he would do something was: 'I'm 45, my wife's just died, I've got children and frankly, I'm game for fucking anything'. And basically that's how I feel; I think Steve's a bit like that too.

Sydney was good, a bit of an adventure.

Yeah, I'm always thinking that, but I still really like music and I also really like singing - it's a really good thing to do.

It (the music caper) does get frustrating because you are swamped by so much of the crap that goes with the territory. There doesn't seem to be any standards.

No standards of valuation. It's very confusing.

No, not at all. What I mean is the question of what is a good record is a very variable thing. A good record to one person is shit to another.

Not really, I like good reviews, but even more than that I like it when people walk up to you in the street and say that a particular song of mine made them happy, or whatever.

Oh yeah, people come up to you and say nasty things.

Look, you know, nothing people do would surprise me. People have a great capacity for being really like great and really like unbelievably rude and shocking. You only have to look at the news to see that.

(Cummings laughs with scorn) I'm not going to give you an example...

I'm not going to promote this behaviour. It's a complex thing...

Yeah, life. You know, it's a complex thing doing anything where you're shoving bits of yourself out into the public. It's an odd way to make a living. Most jobs aren't so personally on the line, but then, there's good things...and bad things.

Well, it's funny, funnier still because you mentioned All Things Must Pass earlier. One of the songs on that album that I've always really liked was Beware of Darkness and one of the lines was 'beware of falling swingers'.

I really like the word swinger, it's a sort of Sammy Davis Junior kind of swinging kind of Californian word. And then falling swinger, to me, is to do with getting through life, how you develop, how you get by and all that stuff.

Falling Swinger? Someone getting older, a burnt out singer...(laughs). I just liked the image.

I know this for a fact, because I just ran into Tony Cohen and he's produced the Daddy Cool album.

I just don't have any interest in it at all. I never liked Skyhooks anyway. I especially don't have any interest in them. Umm, I don't have a feeling about it. Generally, it's just for money, isn't it? (he laughs)

I'm starting in Perth and then going throughout Australia for about five weeks. Then I'll save some money and go for a holiday in India in October, if I can scrounge the money together.

(Long pause) Wouldn't mind... (loud laughter)

No...unfortunately.